Where to get d-tartaric acid?

[Nitecore20]

Hello. Can someone tell me, where to get d-tartaric acid in EU? The told, that it is not necessary to buy that expensive stuff from the chemical suppliers... They also told that it could also find in supermarkets etc?? But is that the d- jsomer ?

Kind regards

 

[Ihatemybitchwife]

Laboratorium discounter has it.

 

[Nitecore20]

Yes, i know- but extremely expensive. But thanks for your answer

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

It's a bit more expensive than standard from wine stores in my country.

 

[Mr Good Cat]

Yeah, bro!!! It is fucking weird, but all I see in my neighboring countries (EU) is 250 EUR per 100 gr. In China it is about 10 EUR per 100 gr.
Fuck's sake, what is going on with this world?!!!

 

[Botsauto-Dutchland]

look @ amazon

 

[Gale]

U doing lysergamide?

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

probably just separating enantiomers

 

[SpectreOfCommunism]

winery supply stores

 

[MadHatter]

No. Thats L-tartaric acid. Understand the difference.

I actually wonder this also. It's really hard to find from any of my usual suppliers, including labdiscounter. They have it, but it requires an end user declaration and any order is probably reported.

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

I believe any will work d or l if the purpose is separating a racemic sol. of freebase, i remember reading this around here.Either l or d will precipitate just the l part, but again i might be wrong

 

[MadHatter]

Yes, you might be wrong. You'll need D-tartaric acid.

 

[Saul]

There is also DL-Tartaric Acid CAS 133-37-9
it is a legal substance in Europe, so this knowing it looks to me best to order from the source
also to avoid user declaration even without your knowing in Holland .
those Dutch online LAB stores are a treasure for Law Informants. they even go below the normal price just to get information.

D-Tartaric Acid CAS 147-71-7, L-Tartaric Acid CAS 87-69-4, DL-Tartaric Acid CAS 133-37-9 Manufacturers and Suppliers - Price - Fengchen

Fengchen provides quality d-tartaric acid cas 147-71-7, l-tartaric acid cas 87-69-4, dl-tartaric acid cas 133-37-9. We are one of the leading and professional China manufacturers and suppliers in this field. Top quality, good stability and competitive price are our main advantages. Welcome to...

www.fengchengroup.com

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

Oh yeah you're totally right.Now that I go back and read D(+) and D(-) were equivalent, not l and d

 

[MadHatter]

I can't really see the point of using DL-tartaric acid. wouldn't that just precipitate both isomers as tartaric salts and not isolate any of them?

Other than that, it might be that I'm wrong. Maybe L-tartaric acid can be used to precipitate the L-isomer of the amphetamine, leaving the dextro in solution. But I also read that L-Tartaric acid is more soluble in water. that would make the L-isomer bound to L-tartaric acid more difficult to isolate from solution. Research on my part is ongoing, but if any of our experts would like to chip in on this that would be great.
This is a great resource for info about enantiomer resolution, but I just begun working through the massive amounts of sources: https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=20031.0

 

[MadHatter]

Ok, I think I'm done. And I stand corrected. One can probably use L-tartaric acid to precipitate out the L-isomer of both meth and amph. It's described here:

Procedures for the Resolution of Racemic Amphetamines

Just a heads up: the nomenclature can be a messed up. L-tartaric acid is called DEXTRO-tartaric acid, and used to be named d-tartaric acid (with lowercase D). D-tartaric acid is LEVO-tartaric acid and used to be named l-tartaric acid (lowercase L). It confused the shit out of me for a little while. In the text I linked above the old lowercase nomenclature is used. Once you get that, it's pretty easy to follow.

 

[Saul]

Three stereoisomeric forms of tartaric acid exist:

(1) dextrorotatory tartaric acid (d-tartaric acid) found in grapes and several other fruits,

(2) levorotatory tartaric acid (l-tartaric acid) obtained chiefly by resolution of racemic tartaric acid,

(3) a meso or achiral form. Racemic tartaric acid (an equal mixture of d- and l-tartaric acid) is prepared commercially by the molybdenum- or tungsten-catalyzed oxidation of maleic anhydride with hydrogen peroxide.

 

[Nitecore20]

So, the one which can be get from the Brewer store, the L-tartaric acid, can also be used for our job?

 

[Saul]

you need to check the lable for the cas nr
with that nr you look here in this topic.

 

[MadHatter]

Yes. The L-tartaric acid is the same as d-tartaric acid. But NOT the same as D-tartaric acid. Notice the difference with the lowercase d and the uppercase D. L-tartaric acid is the only kind you'll find at the brewery store anyway. But I would order it from some chemical company online, or possibly eBay.

 

[MadHatter]

Here you go, stereochemistry 1.01:


The prefixes l and d are just short for dextrorotary or levorotary: which way the molecule rotates polarized light. "l" = levo = to the left, "d" = dextro = to the right. But these prefixes are old and not used anymore.
In the modern nomenclature these have been replaced by the (+) for dextro and the (-) for levo.

The prefixes L and D (uppercase letters) refer to the Fischer projections of the molecules and have nothing to do with how they rotate light, but in what direction key parts of the molecule is drawn in that standardised model. They are in this case actually REVERSED in relation to the d and l prefixes: d is L and l is D.

So L-(+)-tartaric acid means: "a tartaric acid molecule that's drawnin the Fischer projection with the relevant group pointed to the Left, and rotates polarized light to the right", a.k.a dextrorotary, a.k.a dextro, a.k.a d-tartaric acid. This is the natural form of tartaric acid.

And, of course, vice versa for D-(-)-tartaric acid.

Now, as far as I understand, both isomers of tartaric acid can be used to resolve enantiomers of amphetamines. If you use D-(-)-tartaric acid you will get crystals of d-amph/D-tartrate crashing out, and if you use L-(+)-tartaric acid you will get crystals of l-amph/L-tartrate crashing out.
Using DL-tartaric acid would be absolutely useless, since it wouldn't separate anything: both enantiomers would crash out.