Question Extracting red phosphorus from fireworks?

1019er

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I'd like to know if there is an easy way to extract the phosphorus from fireworks?

It seems that they main ingredients is red and white phosphorus.

Beside extracting it from matches boxes, this must give a much bigger yield!

So are there any options for that or is there an easier way to come by this substance?
 

Osmosis Vanderwaal

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I feel like phosphorus doesn't dissolve in anything. Yes, that's correct, red phosphorus doesn't dissolve in any solvent
So I would water it and filter it, maybe acetone, gasoline kerosene just keep going and going until red phosphorus is all that stays in the coffee filter
 

SoldadoDeDrogas

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If you cut off your striker pads you can soak them in acetone for around 40 mins and most of it will fall off with a light mixing, it saturates quickly, so I recommend another wash to get the rest. It should rub right off if it hasn't come off itself. Remove all the paper. Filter, rinse with water once or twice and let dry. Now create a %20 NaOH solution in H2O. Put your dried RP into solution and simmer on low heat for an hour or so. Filter and wash with water. Upon drying you should have a decent product.

Sorry, you were asking about fireworks. I can't offer much there...
 

1019er

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I think the problem with striker pads are, that they only contain a small amount of phosphorus so I'd need a really big amount of them. So I thought fireworks must have much higher concentration.
 

SoldadoDeDrogas

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Get the MSDS's for red and white phosphorous and see if you can figure out if one dissolves in something the other doesn't. If red doesn't dissolve then figure out if white will in anything and theres your ticket.
 

Osmosis Vanderwaal

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Nothing dissolves red phosphorus. White phosphorus dissolves in a few things but I don't know why you would mess with it, when you could just cook your extrsvt and turn white intobref. Fireworks are a good choice if you can get them affordably. You can buy 8.5×11 sheets of match striker on Amazon and eBay. That would save you a lot of time and trash. As I pointed out in another thread, what you are talking about doing here isn't extracting phosphorus extract has a pretty specific definition. You are trying to extract everything else from the phos
 

1019er

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Ok so I alredy bought a few packs of matches but I thought that I'd need hundreds if them to get a decent amount..

And what and how many sheets do you recommend ? Those with the brown surface or those with the little dots?
 

SoldadoDeDrogas

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I totally get it @1019er, start trying to scrape a few match books and within a miniute decide this isn't going to work for the long term. Ordering large pads is probably the way to go, combined with a bit of stealth, a continuing supply of that isn't gonna look too good for the record. I went to the supermarket and opted for the larger boxes with larger pads at first, I ended up with brown gummy shit, pretty certain those aren't the ones we want. Aim for a more red color with "gritty" texture - "the little dots" I am assuming.
I went for the boxes of 50 books each, much more tedious. With the process I mentioned above about soaking in acetone and rinsing, washing, simmering in lye etc. It's not so bad. I can confirm it does work rather well.
The time consuming part is just cutting up all the pads. Let em soak or simmer and work on something else for a little while. The good part is you can recycle the red p a few times also. Don't get too much at once either, you'd be surprised what's going to get someones attention - I would get a pack at a time from each store. RP is definitely on the radar.
 

1019er

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Not sure if Amazon will get you in trouble with this, in worst case it's possible to open up a new account, fill it with gift cards and send it to a local pickup box, and then pick it up anonymously with a code.

https://www.amazon.de/CLISPEED-Stre...efix=phosphor+sheet,aps,229&sr=8-1&th=1&psc=1

Not sure but on the picture it seems that the brown sheets contain more of the phosphorus than the one with the dots.
 

Osmosis Vanderwaal

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Yea I would skip the dots. I think I figured a sheet was worth 320 strikers. 160 boxes. I would probably buy 10 and see what I got from them. Phos us recyclable, it doesn't get used up in the reaction so you clean it and reuse it but add 10% more for every cycle
 

Osmosis Vanderwaal

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If you knew the stuff I have bought off of Amazon you would shit. Match strikers I wouldn't bat an eye at. I've bought 37% HCl, 37% formaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ammonium chloride, ammonium sulphate, a mountain of glass, proprionic acid. I've bought actual scheduled drugs off of eBay and if they were going to get me, they're too late.
 

1019er

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Not sure if u just had good luck because u ordered locally...
 

SoldadoDeDrogas

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I see what you mean by "little dots" now, that confused me. Definitely go with the solid color. I came into contact with something else, that's why I was specifying texture, but that's hard to tell from a picture. The stuff I got at the store was very brown and smooth texture which ended up being gummy shit compared to normal strikers which were more reddish and sandy to the touch. I hear you can recycle phos up to 10 times? Do you add %10 on top of a little weight added back? (Assuming a little is lost during recycling. Or is this what the %10 is compensating for?) In other words, does adding %10 cover the quality of used RP, the quantity lost, or essentially both?

You got some balls @FritBuchner. I'm scared as hell just to order some glass equipment. Not so much one thing here and there, the combined continuous supply is what concerns me. For example, I'd like to grab some ma huang. If it works out, I'm gonna want to do it again until something better comes along. That combined with some one time buys of glassware, no biggie. Throw in some RP once in a while, maybe with some other solvents, etc. here and there too, and now it's really starting to get warm. Not tellin anyone what to do, just trying to spread the good word, if not for the newer guys, but for myself. Speaking for myself, it can't be stressed enough. I like to pull my balls out when I think noones watching or will notice, that doesn't mean noone is or will.
 
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SoldadoDeDrogas

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Anyway, let's get this thread back on track, shall we? Does anyone know a brand or type of firework that contains the highest amount and or concentration of red p? Or from there contains the least amount of easily seperatable ingredients/additives to be able to isolate the red p? What about emergency road/boat flares, anyone have any experience with these? Do they still work, which ones and where to get? I suppose the other option from here is to get into electroless nickel plating as a hobbyist - I may try this avenue in the future. Any thoughts?
 

Osmosis Vanderwaal

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Let me ask you this, why are you so set in this method? Also, did you know hyroiodic acid works all by itself, without phosphorus. ( I believe) the phosphorus just recycles the acid so you use a lot less. I believe that the phos. Is less effective after each use. What you lose doesn't matter because you are going to weigh the amount you need each time so if you have lost more, you add more to get the right weight
 

CCL4 huffer

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kinda makes me wonder if Al and I should work too i mean it works for methanol yield prolly gon be shitty af tho
 

SoldadoDeDrogas

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Are you asking me why I'm so set in what method, exactly? I realize hydriodic acid reduces the E/PSE to our honey, but how do we get the hydriodic acid? That's where the rp/i comes in, obviously. That's why I mentioned the nickel plating, for the hypophosphorous acid, it essentially takes the place of the red p. The RP or hypophosphorous acid reacts with the iodine crystal or excess iodine content of the hydriodic acid. I am just trying to understand the mechanisms of who, what, when, where etc. Not just for the sake of my benefit, but this is whats going to turn me into the master alchemist I hope to be someday. Alot of this info/knowledge is theorhetical for me and so is to the other forum users' benefit also. I am not set in any particular method, I am just trying to get to the destination with what is available at any given time, right now, unfortunately, this is my bicycle, for now. In the future, may I pm you, @FritBuchner ? As I consider you a consistent source of good information and seem to be further down the road than I.
 
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Osmosis Vanderwaal

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For me the easiest stuff to get is lithium and ammonium sulphate. Methylamine is second from methylammonium chloride ( methylamine hcl). Most oblivious people hear phosphorus and the first Thing they think of is meth. In the 80's and 90's it was the go-to biker meth. I have enough old ultimate lithium Energizer batteries in the junk drawer that an ounce is nothing
 

Osmosis Vanderwaal

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Walmart and Amazon both sell phosphoric acid. Then you just need some iodine source. This method moves to #2 for me because phosphoric acid and iodine are less conspicuous than formaldehyde to procure
 
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